2017 Rubicon 2-door has sloppy steering and feels like fishtailing

Ribeye67

Ribeye67

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Tried searching the forum. Maybe didn't use the correct terms. I just bought a 2017 Rubicon 2 door. The test drive felt a little wobbly, but drivable. I thought it might be a jeep thing. I remember the same issue driving one off road in the 80's. Driving home to the S.F. Bay Area from Sacramento was the scariest drive of my life. The play in the steering caused almost every steering input to result in an opposite input needed. Several times it was like I was fishtailing down the interstate. I thought I was going to end up rolling it right there on the interstate. Every time I was heading towards a pothole (CA has lots of them despite the high taxes), I dared not try to steer away for fear of starting another "fishtailing" episode, hitting the pothole seemed safer. I was thinking the whole 1.5 hour drive that if this is normal, I can't believe this is street legal.

Eventually I drove like they show people driving in movie closeups... just kept moving the wheel side to side lightly. That seemed to help keep me from wandering around. It just seems dangerous to not feel like you can easily maintain the lane. Even on local streets, I don't enjoy driving it.

Sitting in the driveway and turning the wheel back and forth there is about two inches of play back and forth.

Does anyone know what could be the cause and if this is a common thing and easily diagnosed by a mechanic?

This is my number one, first post on this forum. Hoping to learn a lot on what mods I will need that will allow my Jeep to handle most trails (maybe someday the Rubicon) plus be able to drive around town. This is a second vehicle so I won't be commuting in it.

Thank you in advance.

20230514152933712_may 2023-7.jpg
 
lose / worn steering component, I say. Had a similar issue w my JKU.
A good alignment helped really reduce the fish tail feeling. Mine always felt like the rear was wagging to the left. But was completely remedied after replacing the drag link and ball joints. Before those
Components, it was intolerable and felt unsafe / unpredictable.

Bet of luck!
 
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Ribeye67 said:
Tried searching the forum. Maybe didn't use the correct terms. I just bought a 2017 Rubicon 2 door. The test drive felt a little wobbly, but drivable. I thought it might be a jeep thing. I remember the same issue driving one off road in the 80's. Driving home to the S.F. Bay Area from Sacramento was the scariest drive of my life. The play in the steering caused almost every steering input to result in an opposite input needed. Several times it was like I was fishtailing down the interstate. I thought I was going to end up rolling it right there on the interstate. Every time I was heading towards a pothole (CA has lots of them despite the high taxes), I dared not try to steer away for fear of starting another "fishtailing" episode, hitting the pothole seemed safer. I was thinking the whole 1.5 hour drive that if this is normal, I can't believe this is street legal.

Eventually I drove like they show people driving in movie closeups... just kept moving the wheel side to side lightly. That seemed to help keep me from wandering around. It just seems dangerous to not feel like you can easily maintain the lane. Even on local streets, I don't enjoy driving it.

Sitting in the driveway and turning the wheel back and forth there is about two inches of play back and forth.

Does anyone know what could be the cause and if this is a common thing and easily diagnosed by a mechanic?

This is my number one, first post on this forum. Hoping to learn a lot on what mods I will need that will allow my Jeep to handle most trails (maybe someday the Rubicon) plus be able to drive around town. This is a second vehicle so I won't be commuting in it.

Thank you in advance.

View attachment 124938
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This sounds like a used-car issue. It might be why the vehicle was traded in. Look up "death wobble." There will be extensive discussion. You might want to watch this:
They offer some causes they isolated that can contribute to it. Under California law, you might also be protected by lemon law statutes. The dealer probably should fix things, unless you signed an as-is contract without a real test drive.
 
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Could the steering gearbox, you can temporarily fix it by tightening the screw on the top of the box. Best way to check is to turn key on to unlock wheel and not running and have someone turn the wheel back and forth while you watch the pitman arm to start to move, If the steering wheel move some it can be the gearbox.

Also doing the same watch the tie rods for slop before the wheels move.
 
Either get under it and check all the steering components/rear suspension for wear or pay someone to do it, preferably someone with good Jeep experience. Odds are a few things are not up to spec and causing it. A prybar and a good flashlight work wonders testing every connection for play.
 
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Threepointsix said:
lose / worn steering component, I say. Had a similar issue w my JKU.
A good alignment helped really reduce the fish tail feeling. Mine always felt like the rear was wagging to the left. But was completely remedied after replacing the drag link and ball joints. Before those
Components, it was intolerable and felt unsafe / unpredictable.

Bet of luck!
Click to expand...
Thank you. Very glad to find out this isn't a "Jeep thing" that I would just have to learn to live with. Now I need to find a shop that knows Jeeps, for this and future work. So far I only see the local dealership when I look up Jeep specialists.
 
Another thing alot of People put wheel spacers on might check them to see if they are tight.

Look for shops that work mainly on Jeeps or lifted trucks.
 
Found a place near me in Brentwood, CA called Extreme Motorsports that specializes in installation of lift kits and suspensions. Now I just need to find a repair shop that specializes in Jeeps. There is one nearby that says they work on Jeeps, but they say they work on pretty much all vehicles, so not a specialist. Don't want to go to the nearby Jeep dealer, but that could be a last resort. I don't have time now to do work myself. After I retire I will have plenty of time, but maybe not the knowledge. I can learn a lot from YouTube though.
 
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Ribeye67 said:
Found a place near me in Brentwood, CA called Extreme Motorsports that specializes in installation of lift kits and suspensions. Now I just need to find a repair shop that specializes in Jeeps. There is one nearby that says they work on Jeeps, but they say they work on pretty much all vehicles, so not a specialist. Don't want to go to the nearby Jeep dealer, but that could be a last resort. I don't have time now to do work myself. After I retire I will have plenty of time, but maybe not the knowledge. I can learn a lot from YouTube though.
Click to expand...


Look for Jeep clubs they always have a go to Person or Shop.
 
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Ribeye67 said:
Found a place near me in Brentwood, CA called Extreme Motorsports that specializes in installation of lift kits and suspensions. Now I just need to find a repair shop that specializes in Jeeps. There is one nearby that says they work on Jeeps, but they say they work on pretty much all vehicles, so not a specialist. Don't want to go to the nearby Jeep dealer, but that could be a last resort. I don't have time now to do work myself. After I retire I will have plenty of time, but maybe not the knowledge. I can learn a lot from YouTube though.
Click to expand...
Extreme should also do regular suspension troubleshooting if they’re anything like our local Jeep specialty shops. Worth a call!
 
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Snowbird Tom said:
Extreme should also do regular suspension troubleshooting if they’re anything like our local Jeep specialty shops. Worth a call!
Click to expand...
Definitely worth a call. If they can't do the work, they may know where you can take your Jeep. A general 4x4 shop, or off-roading would be a couple other search terms.

Jeeps really aren't that much different from other off-roaders. It's the solid axles that the standard shop isn't used to anymore. A place that works on farm trucks may also be an option.
 
Snowbird Tom said:
If your location is correct-
from google maps->

4 Wheel Parts
38 Hegenberger Ct
Oakland, CA 94621

4x4 Shop
4021 First St
Livermore, CA 94551
United States, California
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Thanks. Those are both about 45 minutes from me depending on traffic. Would probably go to Livermore first. I would worry too much about crime to go to Oakland.
 
Here is an update. I found out that the dealer had replaced the ball joints, tie rod ends, and drag link.

I contacted a friend in Idaho while he was with his Jeep club. They said the ball joints need to be wore in some, and said to drive it around where I can steer a lot. The drive down from the dealership was interstate driving so even though a long distance, was not enough turning to wear in the ball joints. Also they said the drag link probably needs to be adjusted.

The dealership probably didn't drive it around to see the issue. I will be taking it to be checked out, but to in impartial mechanic.

The best part of the conversation with the guys in Idaho is that they offered to install a 3.5" lift kit (what they recommended) for me if I bought the parts and brought everything to Idaho. They also recommended 35" tires, but my 32" tires are brand new, so I will drive with them unless I find that I need to upgrade. I had asked them what would be a good configuration for off road, but be ok for driving around town (no commuting).

Thanks for all of the posts.
 
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Ribeye67 said:
Here is an update. I found out that the dealer had replaced the ball joints, tie rod ends, and drag link.

I contacted a friend in Idaho while he was with his Jeep club. They said the ball joints need to be wore in some, and said to drive it around where I can steer a lot. The drive down from the dealership was interstate driving so even though a long distance, was not enough turning to wear in the ball joints. Also they said the drag link probably needs to be adjusted.

The dealership probably didn't drive it around to see the issue. I will be taking it to be checked out, but to in impartial mechanic.

The best part of the conversation with the guys in Idaho is that they offered to install a 3.5" lift kit (what they recommended) for me if I bought the parts and brought everything to Idaho. They also recommended 35" tires, but my 32" tires are brand new, so I will drive with them unless I find that I need to upgrade. I had asked them what would be a good configuration for off road, but be ok for driving around town (no commuting).

Thanks for all of the posts.
Click to expand...
No vehicle should behave as you describe. One thing that jumps out is the play you mention in the steering. My own wheel has less than an inch of play.
 
Ribeye67 said:
Here is an update. I found out that the dealer had replaced the ball joints, tie rod ends, and drag link.

I contacted a friend in Idaho while he was with his Jeep club. They said the ball joints need to be wore in some, and said to drive it around where I can steer a lot. The drive down from the dealership was interstate driving so even though a long distance, was not enough turning to wear in the ball joints. Also they said the drag link probably needs to be adjusted.

The dealership probably didn't drive it around to see the issue. I will be taking it to be checked out, but to in impartial mechanic.

The best part of the conversation with the guys in Idaho is that they offered to install a 3.5" lift kit (what they recommended) for me if I bought the parts and brought everything to Idaho. They also recommended 35" tires, but my 32" tires are brand new, so I will drive with them unless I find that I need to upgrade. I had asked them what would be a good configuration for off road, but be ok for driving around town (no commuting).

Thanks for all of the posts.
Click to expand...

Nice offer, but figure out the expenses for the trip. I would wager you’d come out far ahead just paying a local shop to install. Jeeps are not known for their fuel economy.

Yeah, I’m usually up for a road trip to play. lol

ETA: in my limited 40 years of wrenching, that’s the first I’ve ever heard of having ball joints wear in. Take that recommendation with some serious squint eye.
 
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How exactly does a ball joint "wear in?" That is completely counterintuitive. Think about it- new ball joints tighten everything up; old, worn ball joints are loose and sloppy, which is the condition you're describing.
I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, but, as Tom said above, I've never heard of a ball joint "wearing in."

And that 3.5" lift is going to require a bunch of additional parts- adjustable control arms, adjustable track bars and, likely, new shocks. Possibly even new driveshafts depending on the geometry.
 
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I will take the Jeep in next week to get it checked out. The guy I talked to in Idaho said he was experiencing the same thing as I am. I just hope it is something simple. You guys convinced me that I should have it looked at.
 
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