Not to mention a regear to get the power band back in it’s proper neighborhood with the larger tires.
2017 Rubicon 2-door has sloppy steering and feels like fishtailing
- Thread starter Ribeye67
- Start date
Not to mention a regear to get the power band back in it’s proper neighborhood with the larger tires.
So the shop said everything looks fine, nothing loose. They said it was just the way the Jeeps drive, and I will probably get used to it. He said I could always get a second opinion from the Chrysler dealership, wher people work on Jeeps all the time. I have an appointment on Wednesday at the place I bought it for them to replace the passenger side power door lock. They said that they will look at the steering issue too.
I don't see how this could just be something to get used to. I have to say that I am getting used to it on surface streets, but not for speeds around 65 mph. I will probably never get a speeding ticket if I already feel at the limit of controlling the vehicle at 65 mph. I think I will schedule an appointment with Chrysler dealership, but I talked to them and they are 3 weeks out on appointments. Will do that after the place I bought looks at it again.
I don't see how this could just be something to get used to. I have to say that I am getting used to it on surface streets, but not for speeds around 65 mph. I will probably never get a speeding ticket if I already feel at the limit of controlling the vehicle at 65 mph. I think I will schedule an appointment with Chrysler dealership, but I talked to them and they are 3 weeks out on appointments. Will do that after the place I bought looks at it again.
That's not the way jeeps drive, the Dealer won't know either i'll bet. Next time your out and see a lifted Jeep ask them who would be a good place to figure out why your Jeep does that.
You could always swap the front tires/wheels to the rear and see if it still does it.
If the drive from Sacramento to the Bay Area was as shaky as you described, then "the shop" is utterly wrong. Jeeps do not just "drive" as you describe. You need to have someone who knows what they are doing look at the geometry of the linkages, including not only the attachment points, but all the parts that are linked by them. What you describe sounds like what is sometimes called "death wobble."
https://www.axleboy.com/4x4-offroad/death-wobble-what-is-it-and-how-is-it-fixed/
DW is not unique to Wranglers, but among modern vehicles, very few employ solid front axles, and DW occurs most commonly on solid-axle vehicles. One other thought. Have you had your tires and wheels checked for balance and integrity? My wife had a serious vibration on a Renegade she bought. It only showed higher speeds. The dealership ultimately swapped out both the tire and wheel. We were never informed of what the actual cause was. The tricky part was that she was called several times and informed it was "fixed." We would drive down, take it out for a drive and as soon as we reached around 65, it would appear again. The dealer was a used car dealer.
I haven't noticed a wobble or vibration, it seems more to do with steering play than anything. I have to be careful when in the dead zone to not over correct when it finally responds. That leads to driver induced fishtailing feel.
I will keep my eye out for other people I can talk to about their Jeeps. I parked next to one yesterday and got "ducked" by that Jeep owner before he left. First time getting ducked. My wife thought it was cool.
In your first Post you said you had about 2" of free play in the steering wheel, I can't believe that shop said that was OK. Slop like that is usually the steering gearbox or combination of that and the track bar.
But I would think if the track bar was bad you'd have DW, I had it once in my old Dodge truck and it wasn't much fun.
I mentioned the gear box and the adjustment screw on the top of it when I dropped it off. Going to head to the Carnegie State Vehicular Recreation Area about an hour away. Maybe while there I can talk to other Jeep owners. As long as this isn't a "Jeep" thing, I will get it fixed sooner or later.
Your original post indicates a serious concern about controlling the jeep at higher speeds. Among other observables, you mention around two inches of play in the steering wheel. That two inches of play also translates to two inches of no sense of what the front wheels are doing. Irregularities in the road surface, gusts of wind, blasts of air from the slip streams of passing cars will all translate in shifts in direction that you will not feel until they become visible to your eye. Any distraction inside the car, and that includes otherwise appropriate actions like checking the mirrors, will magnify that effect by prolonging the time between the events cause, and when you become aware of it. If that play has not been corrected, start there. The "fishtailing" feeling is due to feed back as you correct the course the vehicle is following. I've driven 80 to the Bay Area from Sacramento many times in two different JKUs as well as many other vehicles, and what you are describing is not normal in any vehicle, let alone a Wrangler.
Threepointsix
JK Enthusiast
Alignment first. That almost fixed my 'fishtail' highway ride. But the real fix for me was new ball joints and a brand new drag link. The drag link was visually not really responding to small movements of the steering wheel. It was scary at 65 MPH and above.
They had replaced tie rod ends, ball joints, and drag link. Probably also looking for the cause. The mechanic said everything was fine, including alignment. I really think it is the gear box needs adjustment, by default.
Just out of curiosity, what pressure are you running your tires at? Just to keep the vehicle a little more stable, might I suggest dropping your tire pressure to about 29-30psi until you get this thing figured out? It's probably going to throw a low pressure code and alert, but it'll stabilize your JK a little more for the time being.
One other thing to look at, considering that you have a sense of fishtailing, is the rear track bar adjustment, if it's adjustable. Mine isn't. If the rear axle is off center, the vehicle might want to travel down the road a little sideways. You might find your self trying to correct that.
Threepointsix
JK Enthusiast
@Ribeye67 this is the offroad / 4x4 shop telling you the alignment is good? Because the shop mine was at did everything (including changing the rear control arms) to correct my Jeep's 'sway' and it was all up front. The alignment was off too, by 2 degrees (toe out- I think?) and it took an actually 4x4 shop to correct that. Really was a very frustrating experience. I almost sold the Jeep.
Update - I took it back to the dealer for some other work and they took it to the 4 Wheel Parts store that was next door for an alignment. The mechanic from next door and another person independently told me that the ball joints do need to wear in. They have a lot of people come back complaining about the same thing but it works itself out. I guess I will have to wait and see. It might take a while since I don't drive it much on weekdays. They also said I need to get used to driving such a short wheelbase. In the mean time, I am going to research what bumper I want to buy so I can mount my winch. I will update later if the steering actually gets better.
Threepointsix
JK Enthusiast
So they aligned it again? If so, then it was in fact off, no? And has it improved?
A short wheelbase Jeep is sort of squirrely. I remember driving a soft top JK rental years ago and it was a little uneasy to drive upwards of 70 plus miles an hour. But my TJ isn't like that on the highway. Maybe that JK was just abused since it was after all a fleet rental.
They were checking the alignment. The previous shop said that the alignment looked good too.
I have aired the tires down from 40# to 30#. It might be better or it could be that I am getting used to it. Going to take a look at the track bars when I get a chance. Luckily it isn't my daily driver. Bought it for primitive camping, since I don't think I should be backpacking alone anymore at my age.
Threepointsix
JK Enthusiast
You're likely getting adjusted to driving the Jeep. If it's a passive / leisure vehicle and you're really particular about drive feel and confort, maybe that's just it. Especially if you rarely drive it.
I will go on record and say I don't agree with the general census that tire pressure makes a huge difference in how a Wrangler meanders and pulls. When I first started with Jeeps I had a TJ and it had old misbalanced tires. They were always losing pressure and had flat spots yet my Jeep never pulled or felt like it was wandering or losing stability. However, I do believe tires have a lot to do with how smooth or quiet a vehicle rides, and the MPG's. Sure, bad tires can cause many unfavorable driving issues, but fishtail feeling and wandering? I don't believe that 10 to 15psi really makes it painful difference.
I will go on record and say I don't agree with the general census that tire pressure makes a huge difference in how a Wrangler meanders and pulls. When I first started with Jeeps I had a TJ and it had old misbalanced tires. They were always losing pressure and had flat spots yet my Jeep never pulled or felt like it was wandering or losing stability. However, I do believe tires have a lot to do with how smooth or quiet a vehicle rides, and the MPG's. Sure, bad tires can cause many unfavorable driving issues, but fishtail feeling and wandering? I don't believe that 10 to 15psi really makes it painful difference.
You probably have resolved your issue, but thought I’d share my experiences. Bought a used 2017 JKU. It has a lift of approx 4” with 35” tires. Driving was a little like playing Russian Roulette. Swaying badly at high speeds, taking corners at higher speeds were nail biting events, and I had pops and groans at slow speeds. Steering input was constant. Here’s what was done to resolve my issues…
1. Ball joints and tie rods replaced and aligned. Helped some, but not completely.
2. Trailing arms for front were installed. They enabled a better alignment, but I still wasn’t happy with the results.
3. Drag link was terrible. Got an expensive one ($300) from Metalcloak. It was adjustable, and well worth the money. Installed it and the drive was way worse. Adjusted it a bit (takes 2 minutes) and it was a HUGE difference. Much better. Had it realigned for good measure.
4. Lastly, I put new rear sway bar end links on. The old one was rusted and the boots were completely rotted. It didn’t make a difference in driving quality, but the drag link had already improved the ride 100%.
5. Another thing I learned, and you should remember this when you increase tire size, is that the computer thinks you have 32” tires. When sizing up, you need to recalibrate the computer. Mine had not been and my transmission was taking a beating and my speedometer was 7-8 mph off. I bought a dongle and an app (total of $60) and recalibrated myself. Instantly fixed my shifting issues.
I was told by 3 mechanics that “it’s just a Jeep thing.” Whenever I hear that, I realize I’m talking to an idiot.
1. Ball joints and tie rods replaced and aligned. Helped some, but not completely.
2. Trailing arms for front were installed. They enabled a better alignment, but I still wasn’t happy with the results.
3. Drag link was terrible. Got an expensive one ($300) from Metalcloak. It was adjustable, and well worth the money. Installed it and the drive was way worse. Adjusted it a bit (takes 2 minutes) and it was a HUGE difference. Much better. Had it realigned for good measure.
4. Lastly, I put new rear sway bar end links on. The old one was rusted and the boots were completely rotted. It didn’t make a difference in driving quality, but the drag link had already improved the ride 100%.
5. Another thing I learned, and you should remember this when you increase tire size, is that the computer thinks you have 32” tires. When sizing up, you need to recalibrate the computer. Mine had not been and my transmission was taking a beating and my speedometer was 7-8 mph off. I bought a dongle and an app (total of $60) and recalibrated myself. Instantly fixed my shifting issues.
I was told by 3 mechanics that “it’s just a Jeep thing.” Whenever I hear that, I realize I’m talking to an idiot.