Scepter Toad

S

ScepterToad

Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2023
Messages
27
Location
Cincinnati, OH
Did an intro thread over in the general forum, but this will be my build/maintenance thread for the Scepter Toad.

'17 4 door sport in Rhino (grey?) with a hard top. Primary function will be a daily while I continue work on my '03 Ford Excursion that I Cummins swapped a few years back. Clifford is a great ride and I love him dearly, but being a rust belt truck, he's getting a little long in the tooth. Other primary reason is to flat tow behind out Holiday Rambler Scepter 40PDQ. I set the X up to flat tow but decided that at 8,000+ pounds that it was just a bit much. On a short trip, not bad, but anything out west would be more worry than it's worth. The kids are all out of the house, so we no longer need room for 4 kids plus friends. Just us and 2 dogs for the most part. Anyway, the Jeep is lifted 3" best I can measure, has all the aftermarket goodies, and will need a few more modifications to make it truly mine. Here's what I'm thinking, and in no particular order:

1. Soft top
2. Re-gear from 3.21 to probably 4.10 (I'd certainly take input on that running 35s). Probably lockers.
3. Woolwax everywhere. There's no rust on it, yet, and I'd like to keep it that way
4. Misc goodies for doors off riding (mirrors and pegs to start)
5. Tow bar setup for the coach (have the tow bar and brake system, just need the attachment point and wiring)
6. Different LED lighting. Mine isn't great, and half of them don't work.
7. Full size spare. The wheel matches, but the tire is a 33.
8. Get rid of the MTs in favor of ATs, not sure what brand just yet.
9. Maybe a different grill. The one on it looks fine, I just think it could have a bit more air flow given there's a winch blocking a lot of area.
10. New exhaust, maybe. It currently has the flowmaster duals and is a bit loud for my taste. The X is a 4" straight pipe and covers me in the loud exhaust department.

That's all I can think of at this point, but I'm sure I'll remake this list as time goes on.

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On gears, I was thinking 4.10s, but the more I look at it, I'm just not sure. I found a chart on here that basically says for regular offroad at varying elevations, I should be at 5.13 or 5.38.


However, I don't really like turning ~2400 RPM at 70mph. So, I might go lower (higher) to keep the RPM down. I'm not sure how this chart corelates to the 3.6 as it's for the 3.8, but it has to be close. When I look at the spicer gear ratio calculator (3.73s) and plug in the 5th gear ratio (0.8314) for the transmission at 2,000rpm, I should be able to make ~67mph. That would be acceptable I think. If I were to move up to 37" tires, I could make just over 71mph.

spicerparts.com

Spicer Transmission Ratio RPM Calculator

Use the Spicer Transmission Ratio RPM Calculator to determine your engine’s RPM based on the transmission gear ratio, tire height, MPH, and ring and pinion gear ratio.
spicerparts.com spicerparts.com

Any thoughts on all that?
 
First "mod", if that's what it really is....speedo calibration. At the behest of this forum and youtube videos, I used the OBD JScan app and a dongle from Amazon. On the first go, I popped in the bluetooth OBD dongle, opened the app, changed the tire size, and once it was done, I just exited the app. Went for a drive and the speedo didn't work at all. Bummer, and popped a CEL. Not cool.

On the second go, same thing only I exited the app by disconnecting the dongle. That worked like a charm! Also was able to clear the codes, which were related to the speedo not working at all (go figure).

I haven't been able to get out on the highway yet to see how she goes through the gears at speed, but driving around town seems to work just fine. The speedo is also dead nuts on vs Waze. I'll take the early win!
 
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Got started on moving my Air Force 1 Braking System from the X to the Jeep this past weekend. Didn't take too long to get the system out of the X. A lot shorter than installing it, that's for sure. I was looking for a good place to put the control box and under the hood of the Jeep is pretty tight. In addition, there's not a lot of good mounting points. Seems like most of the places I looked were plastic. Also, I'm not real keen on drilling holes in things unless I have to. The less holes the better IMHO. I had made a simple bracket out of sheet metal to sit the controller on in the X and was able to reuse that with another bracket added. I ended up using rivets to put the two brackets together, which seemed to work fairly well. I didn't want to drill more holes in the plastic housing where the ABS module sits, so I used double sided body panel tape. If I find that doesn't really hold, I'll drill one more hole and use a longer rivet to secure it. After that, I ran the air line that will connect to the brake actuator inside the cab. Fortunately, they put in a nice pass through right in the firewall that's easily accessed. I stopped there because I needed to order a new 6 pin round connector as I had broken the cover off of the one on the X and I didn't want to wire everything up and not finish it. When I put the brake system in the X, I didn't connect the vacuum lines. I didn't feel the need, but you're supposed to, so I swapped out the old cut off line with a new one. I also got a tee so I can put it in the vac line for the brake booster. I'm still missing a check valve that's supposed to be plumbed in near the brake booster. The control box has one, so I'm not sure I'd need one to be honest. I'll dig into that a bit more before full installation.

On another note, I scored an "installed but not used" Demco tabless tow bar from etrailer for $38 and picked up a new 6 pin and some new 10K pound safety cables. I should get those by the weekend and get all that installed. Should be good to go at that point! Then it'll just be down to a test run prior to an out west trip end of July. On to the pics!

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Picked up the soft top last night. Brand new OEM top from a '13 that was put on one time, then the Jeep sold and the buyers didn't want the top. All hardware included.

Anything necessary/nice to have to put on the top? Usually I'll put 303 protectant on things like this. Pros/cons?

Now I have to make room in my coach storage facility to store the hard top. I have room in the back currently being taken up by a tow dolly that needs to go out the door. That, or bigger storage!
 
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So, in an effort to save $500, I found an installed but not used Demco tabless tow bar for the Jeep. I got it from etrailer and it came today. I paid $38 for it. All parts included and it looks new (not used). My guess is it was used for one of their installation videos. Anyway, since I have the aftermarket bumper, I don’t have the OE bumper mounts, which are needed for the tow bar. Bummer. So, I figure I’ll make 2 plates out of 1/2” stock and bolt them to the tow bar using the factor mounting holes and bolts, and then bolt them to the crash bar under the Jeep. I figure it’s pretty strong given that it’s designed (or so I think) to stop the Jeep from riding up the back of a car if I were to hit someone. Anyone have thoughts on that? Strong enough? Should I back it up with gussets welded behind to the frame? Thoughts? I’d use the lower two holes in the crash bar.

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EDIT: Gussets would have to be in front of the crash bar due to the sway bar mount.
 
Update to the above question. Apparently the base plate I have is for the "Winter Edition" wrangler, which has a different style bumper and mounting system. I found some brackets which appear they might work, however I'm not certain of the differences.

Anyone have a Winter Edition they could share some photos of the bumper mounts and what they look like?
 
Hope everyone had a great Father's Day weekend! I managed two things on the Jeep. Got the base plate installed and got my soft top on. Soft top was pretty straightforward and no pictures of that. The base plate was not straightforward (at least not for me) as it involved a fair amount of fabrication on my part. What started as a money saver ended up costing me in the form of time. I'll chalk it up to getting to know my Jeep better and overall experience. I can work on and fix just about anything, but metal fabrication isn't something I've done a lot of.

I started out with a video on etrailer of one of the etrailer branded base plates. Theirs has a flat plate at each end with one hole pre-drilled for the center hole in the crash bar, and then the installer must drill holes into the frame, add a spacer, and bolt it in. So, I took that model to my base plate. Mine has 2 holes in the end of it that I needed to locate against the hole in the crash bar. I set up the base plate in the position that I wanted it, made sure it was gapped against the bumper and centered. I also used a square to make sure it was perpendicular to the frame horns. From there, I took a piece of cardboard and cut and trimmed to shape, using the curved area at the ends of the base plate where the bolt holes are. Once I was happy with the general shape, I needed to locate the 3 holes. And they were blind to me, so I couldn't just mark them. So, I sat for a bit and thought about it. this is where inexperience comes in. What I settled on was spraying the area with Amsoil frame protectant. It's a pretty oily spray used for rust prevention. Sprayed it on, slapped the cardboard on there, pulled it off, and viola! Printed holes! Cut the shapes out of 1/2" steel plate and got them fitted to the ends of the base plate as best I could. From there, I clamped them together and ground the curves to match. Then I laid the cardboard on them and drilled them out to 1/2" holes. I ended up not getting the holes exactly right at the base plate, so I hogged out one hole a little bigger. That gave me a bit of wiggle room, which I needed. After multiple fitments, I was happy with the placement, bolted everything mostly tight, clamped the brackets to the frame, and drilled my holes. I also made spacers out of a piece of pipe to go between the bracket and the frame. Eased all the edges, painted it all, and installed. The holes in the frame were the hardest to get the bolts tight. Everything got lock washers and red locktite. One thing I do want to do is use a paint marker on the bolt heads so that I Can easily identify any movement. The ones I'm worried about are the frame bolts. Etrailer uses the nuts with a wire fused to them, which you can use to hold the nut while tightening. I didn't have those, so I used a combination of wire wrapped around them tight and then stuck a flat bar through the hole and between the nuts to hold them to get them tight. Still left to do is get the wiring installed, plumb in the actuator on the brake pedal, and test. We have a short trip this weekend to test fully and get some much needed down time.

Overall, this took me an entire Saturday to get done. Worth it to me for the experience and and satisfaction of getting it done. However, from a purely monetary standpoint, totally not worth it.

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No pictures from last night, but I was able to get most of the wiring installed and the AF1 brake controller plumbed to the pedal. I'm reusing the wiring I had in the excursion because it's already made up and in loom and has connectors in place for everything. Drilling the hole in the firewall went as good as it could have gone. Certainly the firewall ion the Jeep is thinner than the Excursion. I think I broke 3 or 4 drill bits trying to get it installed in the X and the Jeep went right through. I got the round 6 pin connector installed on the provided bracket and I had the air line bracket from the last install, which I bolted to the end of the electrical bracket. From there, I got the battery wire routed and connected, and the lighting wire loom all the way back to the rear axle. I will say that with the V shaped engine exhaust routing, it was more difficult to find a nice clear pathway under the vehicle where the wire wouldn't get pinched by a suspension part or movement and around the exhaust. I ended up routing under the passenger side frame up to the fuel tank skid plate, went towards the center and over the body crossmembers, and then over the rear axle. From there, I'll route up to each light, connect the diodes, and button it up. Last piece is to cut into the vacuum lines at the brake booster, install the tee and the check valve up there. Last piece will be wiring in the emergency breakaway switch. I'm not quite sure where I'll place that just yet. I don't want it hanging down under the base plate, and I don't want to drill into the base plate. I think I might drill a hole into the top of the crash bar and mount it up there in the center. I think that'll work.

I also ordered two different size risers today which should arrive tomorrow. I had a custom one made for the X which was I think 12" and 14" rise (two receivers on top of each other). The X base plate height is 30" and the Jeep is 22". So, I ordered a 6" and a 4" along with some receiver clamps to keep everything nice and tight. I'll test them out tomorrow night after work in prep for a short (2 hour) trip this weekend for a final shakedown. We have a 2 week trip to Teton and Glacier coming up end of July so I want to be double sure I'm ready.


I'll post up some pictures once I get it all wired up this evening. Hopefully the rain holds off for long enough to get it all done.
 
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Got the rest of the install complete last night. Not many pictures, but between last night and the night before, I installed the actuator for the brake pedal and got everything wired and routed. Rear lights got the diodes and the power and ground done for the AF1, and the vacuum hose attached. I used the eTrailer.com videos as they are pretty good for installation. Certainly helped a lot with the rear light wiring and identification of the correct wires for the turn and brake lights. I did mount the breakaway switch to the bottom of the crash bar, which I don't like too much, but it's still higher than some of the suspension parts, so might be OK. All wires got marine grade heat shrink on them and any place I drilled a hole or got to bare metal for the ground, I painted as well.

Test run this evening for a trip tomorrow. I need to get fuel in the coach so I'll drag the Jeep up there, which should give me a pretty good idea as to how it'll go. With any luck, my camera system will stay running at least til I get to the fuel station so I can watch it back there. It's only one exit up the highway, but I'd still prefer to see it while I drive.

One more thing I'll do before towing is to paint mark the bolts on the bast plate so I can easily see if they move or any reason. Add another item to the checklist!

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Well, I overlooked the key component to flat towing last week. The connection to the tow bar. I assumed that the tabless adaptors that came with the base plate would fit my Blue Ox tow bar. Mostly because the previous owner of the coach included the tow bar, which had tabless adaptors. However, they aren't Demco style tabless adaptors. So, I couldn't adapt them. No worries, my better half got some seat time in the Wrangler. She did like it, but it's WAY different vs her Sentra. Short trip anyway, which was fine.

We managed to get a bit of trail time in Red River Gorge, and on a weekend where they tried to break the Guinness World Record for a Jeep parade. Unfortunately, we didn't make that because we had to head back home just before they were set to start. I did get on one trail, which was rated a 5 of 10 on On X Offroad. I was a little worried about it having never in my life done any really trail riding with anything other than a dirt bike. Got to my first water crossing and went to 4 Low. Right through, and problem. I have a fair amount of popping in the front end. Sounded an awful lot like the driveshaft u-joints. Back to 2WD, no issues, but I did turn around and head back out of the trail before I got myself hung up. Overall, really excited to do some light offroading!! Next trip is out west to Teton and Glacier. Hope to get some good trails in out there. First up, getting a few things sorted:

1. New adaptors for my tow bar are ordered. Will install when they come in.
2. Pull the front differential apart, inspect, and change the axle shaft u-joints. I'll go with the spicer units 5-760X. I've done these before, so no worries there.
3. Inspect everything else and replace as necessary.


Speaking of that, anyone running any sort of aftermarket axle tube seal? Like this one? https://www.extremeterrain.com/alloy-usa-red-grande-jk-tj-yj-11105.html

Seems prudent to keep water and junk out of the axle tube. When I redid my Excursion, I spent quite a lot of time cleaning out my front axle tube. The inner (outer) seal inside the tube kept everything out of the diff, but this seems like cheap insurance. Opinions?

Now to wash the mud off....
 
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If you want to keep water out of the axle, you'll want to put a hose on the differential vent, run it up high, and then cap it with a breather. Do the same thing with your transmission.
 
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Walking by the Jeep yesterday morning, I looked down and noticed that the passenger front tire looked a little odd. Took a closer look and compared it to the others and it's definitely wearing in the center. Tire pressures are all the same. So, popped it over to the local tire discounters for an alignment. Bad ball joints. I had a sneaking suspicion something was off with it just by how it drives, but wasn't 100% sure. Also, I didn't feel any major play in it, which could have just been my fault. They want $1300 to swap them out, so I have a project this weekend. I was planning on changing the axle u-joints anyway, so what's a little ball joint action gonna hurt? After some searching online for available parts, looking at prices, and a few YouTube reviews, I settled on the Rough Country kit. At $135 for all 4 and with the reviews and what I think I'm gonna do with the Jeep, they fit the bill. And, since I'll be flat towing it right around 4,000 miles in a month, it needs to be tight and right.

Speaking of which, the X has VERY specific alignment specifications if you want it to drive right (so that's what I'm used to). Does the Jeep with a 4" lift and 35's? I've dug around a bit and looks like there's not much consensus out there on the Internets that I can find. Anyone have a sweet spot they like? If not, I figure I'll tell the guy to bring it as close to 0 on toe he can get it, camber should be set by the new ball joints (not adjustable), and 4.5 on the caster. Thoughts?
 
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Personally, I don't replace ball joints. Ball Joint Delete kits are the winning solution. Yes, you have to grease things once in a while. Big deal.
 
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ScepterToad said:
That's a slick system. Out of time and budget right now, but I'll keep this in my back pocket for future reference.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's one of those things that costs more up front, but saves money long term. Which still requires you to be able to afford the up front costs.
 
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