Oil drain down

Ghstrydr

Ghstrydr

JK Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Messages
215
Location
Princetown, NY / Largo Fl.
I'm trying to understand what is happening with my '14 Sahara 3.6L engine, 65000 miles, when I turn it off and at startup regarding oil flow / drain down. Okay, here is what I think is happening, given that the oil filter housing sits in the valley with no check valve, once the engine is turned off the oil drains down out of the filter housing. Now all engines have oil drain down when not running. The difference as I see it is that the oil filter / housing also drains down. With canister oil filters there is a check valve that holds the oil in the filter.

At startup for couple of seconds I hear the lifters / rattle which I "understand" is common with the 3.6L. The cause of this startup rattle is lack of oil at the top of the engine / lifters. Why is this, again, I am speculating so correct any or all of what I am posting, so when the engine starts up it take a couple of seconds or so to fill the oil filter / cooler housing before building pressure and circulating to the top of the engine. Now does this cause any more wear on the engines rocker arms and cam shafts then an engine with a canister filter? I really don't know but it does concern me. What are your thoughts?
 
I heard that on the 3.6's there's a oil galley plug on the front of the engine that can fall out. I'd put a oil pressure gauge on the engine so you can see what's going on, might not even be a oil pressure problem.
 
I know I may be way over thinking this thing and it is only an engine longevity concern if any. I will see about the installation of an oil gauge with the mechanic that does my work. I suspect he will tell me I am looking into a problem that does not exist. Still, some auto manufacturers recommend that you put as much oil into the oil filter prior to installing to avoid just the condition that seems common to the 3.6L on every startup.
 
Ghstrydr said:
I'm trying to understand what is happening with my '14 Sahara 3.6L engine, 65000 miles, when I turn it off and at startup regarding oil flow / drain down. Okay, here is what I think is happening, given that the oil filter housing sits in the valley with no check valve, once the engine is turned off the oil drains down out of the filter housing. Now all engines have oil drain down when not running. The difference as I see it is that the oil filter / housing also drains down. With canister oil filters there is a check valve that holds the oil in the filter.

At startup for couple of seconds I hear the lifters / rattle which I "understand" is common with the 3.6L. The cause of this startup rattle is lack of oil at the top of the engine / lifters. Why is this, again, I am speculating so correct any or all of what I am posting, so when the engine starts up it take a couple of seconds or so to fill the oil filter / cooler housing before building pressure and circulating to the top of the engine. Now does this cause any more wear on the engines rocker arms and cam shafts then an engine with a canister filter? I really don't know but it does concern me. What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Have you tried replacing the filter? The drain back valves can fail inside the filter.
 
Looks like there is an adapter made by Baxter Performance that allows you to use spin on filters, but it's a bit pricey.
 
Vman said:
It's inside the filter cartridge, at least on good filters.

www.brakeandfrontend.com

VIDEO: Why Do Oil Filters Have Anti-Drain Back Valves?

For spin-on filters, it's a rubber-like membrane on the inner side of the can. This video is sponsored by FRAM.
www.brakeandfrontend.com www.brakeandfrontend.com
Click to expand...
The jeep 3.6l has a cartridge filter not canister type, no check valve attached on any
Vman said:
Ah nm. I see the pentastar uses a cartridge. I've got an older model JK with the 3.8 and doesn't use that type of filter.
Click to expand...
Yep, that is the case.
 
Ghstrydr said:
The jeep 3.6l has a cartridge filter not canister type, no check valve attached on any

Yep, that is the case.
Click to expand...

That sucks. I'd go with a conversion kit.

MS-201-BK.jpg
 
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Ghstrydr said:
Yeah, I saw that adapter, it is something I am giving serious thought. Thank you for passing along the info though.
Click to expand...

Something I learned after I got my JK was that many of the really great solutions out there for our rigs don't get a lot of coverage, which surprised me.

Seems there's a lot of "buy it off Amazon" mentality that I just don't subscribe to.
 
Vman said:
Something I learned after I got my JK was that many of the really great solutions out there for our rigs don't get a lot of coverage, which surprised me.

Seems there's a lot of "buy it off Amazon" mentality that I just don't subscribe to.
Click to expand...
It does seem like many folks look for the least costly option and not the most effective. Oh well, it looks like I may trade in my '14 Sahara for a pickup truck. I still have an '08 Sahara where I spend the winter in Florida, that has 135,000+ miles and going strong.

I traded my last truck in for the '14 JK last fall and spent much of this summer pulling around a utility trailer to get things done. Just did not working out like I imagined, it was kind of an impulse buy. The '14 runs great and in excellent condition so I should get a good trade in value . Its strange but I like the ride a bit better in the '08. I know the engine is not the most powerful but it runs well, and being a Florida vehicle it is supper clean underneath. Thanks again for your suggestions for the '14.
 
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Ghstrydr said:
It does seem like many folks look for the least costly option and not the most effective. Oh well, it looks like I may trade in my '14 Sahara for a pickup truck. I still have an '08 Sahara where I spend the winter in Florida, that has 135,000+ miles and going strong.

I traded my last truck in for the '14 JK last fall and spent much of this summer pulling around a utility trailer to get things done. Just did not working out like I imagined, it was kind of an impulse buy. The '14 runs great and in excellent condition so I should get a good trade in value . Its strange but I like the ride a bit better in the '08. I know the engine is not the most powerful but it runs well, and being a Florida vehicle it is supper clean underneath. Thanks again for your suggestions for the '14.
Click to expand...

Put a Pedal Commander or similar Brand, it makes the Jeep feel like it has more power.
 
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Ghstrydr said:
It does seem like many folks look for the least costly option and not the most effective. Oh well, it looks like I may trade in my '14 Sahara for a pickup truck. I still have an '08 Sahara where I spend the winter in Florida, that has 135,000+ miles and going strong.

I traded my last truck in for the '14 JK last fall and spent much of this summer pulling around a utility trailer to get things done. Just did not working out like I imagined, it was kind of an impulse buy. The '14 runs great and in excellent condition so I should get a good trade in value . Its strange but I like the ride a bit better in the '08. I know the engine is not the most powerful but it runs well, and being a Florida vehicle it is supper clean underneath. Thanks again for your suggestions for the '14.
Click to expand...

Yep I've got an '07 with 158k on it and the compression on it is still in the 160ish range, with little variation across all 6.

The auto tranny 4 speed is the real problem with the 07-11 model. Once I got it regeared to 513's on 35's it was night and day better.

If I ever get a newer model it will be one with the 8 speed. Good luck in whatever you decide to do!
 
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My 2014 Rubicon does the same thing on cold startups . Been doing it for on to 3 years now. Apparently Jeep feels that the parts are oil coated from the last running to handle things I do know that when I pull out the filter cart. that there is no big mess running down everywhere. I got to thinking about having an oil pressure gauge so I drilled out the top of the filter tap and run a 1/8th inch tap in it a screwed in an electric pressure into it. On a cold start it will go to just under 100 lbs 'til it warms up and runs at about 30 lbs. thereafter. I'm kinda anal about having an oil pressure gauge I can keep an eye on when leaning badly or steep climbs.
 
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Vman said:
Yep I've got an '07 with 158k on it and the compression on it is still in the 160ish range, with little variation across all 6.

The auto tranny 4 speed is the real problem with the 07-11 model. Once I got it regeared to 513's on 35's it was night and day better.

If I ever get a newer model it will be one with the 8 speed. Good luck in whatever you decide to do!
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's a tough decision. Thank you.
 
Vman said:
Yep I've got an '07 with 158k on it and the compression on it is still in the 160ish range, with little variation across all 6.

The auto tranny 4 speed is the real problem with the 07-11 model. Once I got it regeared to 513's on 35's it was night and day better.

If I ever get a newer model it will be one with the 8 speed. Good luck in whatever you decide to do!
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's a tough decision. Thank you
Barry said:
My 2014 Rubicon does the same thing on cold startups . Been doing it for on to 3 years now. Apparently Jeep feels that the parts are oil coated from the last running to handle things I do know that when I pull out the filter cart. that there is no big mess running down everywhere. I got to thinking about having an oil pressure gauge so I drilled out the top of the filter tap and run a 1/8th inch tap in it a screwed in an electric pressure into it. On a cold start it will go to just under 100 lbs 'til it warms up and runs at about 30 lbs. thereafter. I'm kinda anal about having an oil pressure gauge I can keep an eye on when leaning badly or steep climbs.
Click to expand...
Wow, 100 lbs at start up, that would get the oil to the upper end of the engine in a hurry. BLACKJKU did suggest adding an oil guage to really understand what is happening. Thanks for passing that info along.
 
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