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Just to finish this off... different from some projects... I did manage to finish this one , and have since done a Colorado and Death Valley trips... my welding sometimes looks like stringing popcorn for a Christmas tree but it holds... lol

Speartip..... thanks for the response.... bumper still in process. I did attempt to buy the xrc gen 1 bumper/tire carrier, but was quoted none available ie back ordered. So I went with the unpainted poison spider bumper.... in the pic I have the bumper mocked up on the jeep, with the start...

Gettig off track here a little.... but you are correct, The LOD front bumper connects to the frame, they offer an additional kit which re-enforces the bumper to frame connection, and allows flat towing via the D ring mounts, and also provides for attachment of safety chains.... prior to this...

I get the dollar thing, I went with LOD because I needed a bumper strong enough to be able to tow the jeep with no worries. Towed the jk to this past summer to colorado with no problems. So my first choice is LOD (minus the tire carrier), just trying to see if I am missing any other choices...

I have a LOD front with zero issues, Their rear bumper with t-carrier is $1700.... so I have been checking to see if any others are around that I have missed, I think I can build an acceptable tire carrier, but the bumper needs to be sturdy (3/16" metal) I like the Poison Spider bumper but...