I guess I've joined the JK owners club. Introducing my Anvil JK.

[Fargo]

For the past 3-4 years I've been dreaming of a new JL. Since the first spy shots started to hit the internet I was sure that was my next Jeep. I never really liked the JK. I always thought they were ugly and things like the fenders and grill in particular just didn't look right. The JL fixed all the aesthetic problems of the JK and then made the suspension and drivetrain even better. I was sold on the JL. Several months ago I was finding JLURs for just under $40,000 and I was sure within a year I would be able to pick one up for under $40k with all the features I wanted. Then the chip shortage and consequences of the Covid lock downs hit the market. Suddenly that Jeep that was $40,000 was now listing for $46,000+. Things suddenly got too rich for me since I was really hoping to be closer to $35,000. Then a couple weeks ago along came this 2013 10th Anniversary JK with 60k miles for $36,000. Suddenly I found myself very intersted in a JK. Shortly after making a telephone offer under $35k I found myself driving to the dealership to pickup a new JK. I still prefer the JL with the 8 speed auto and the ability to run 35s with no lift, but I think a 3.5" lift and 35s will dress up this JK nicely.

The plan is AEV 3.5 lift with 35" tires. I'm currently undecided between the AEV tire carrier and the Teraflex carrier. I'm also undecided between black or Onyx Pintlers or saving a little cash and getting the Quadratec Morphic wheels. Let me know your thoughts and opinions on wheels and tire carrers or any comments in general on my new Jeep. Did I do OK or will I regret not waiting for a JL?

Oh... for those who recognize my name from the TJ site. I still have my 2005 LJ Rubihara. I'll be keeping that Jeep a long time.

 

[mrjp]

Looks good I have the AEV spare tire carrier with the spare fuel tank. Works great. If you go that route Install a camera for the rearview Mirror. 35 tire and the fuel cell pretty much covers the rear window.

 

[Fargo]

Thanks for the input and photo. I was looking into installing a camera and connecting it to the factor 430n radio. I think the Teraflex carrier keeps the tire a little lower and its one advantage of that carrier. But I really like how the AEV is tied into the frame and not the body.

PS (I love the Gobi color of your JK).

 

[Anybodyhome]

For the past 3-4 years I've been dreaming of a new JL. Since the first spy shots started to hit the internet I was sure that was my next Jeep. I never really liked the JK. I always thought they were ugly and things like the fenders and grill in particular just didn't look right. The JL fixed all the aesthetic problems of the JK and then made the suspension and drivetrain even better. I was sold on the JL. Several months ago I was finding JLURs for just under $40,000 and I was sure within a year I would be able to pick one up for under $40k with all the features I wanted. Then the chip shortage and consequences of the Covid lock downs hit the market. Suddenly that Jeep that was $40,000 was now listing for $46,000+. Things suddenly got too rich for me since I was really hoping to be closer to $35,000. Then a couple weeks ago along came this 2013 10th Anniversary JK with 60k miles for $36,000. Suddenly I found myself very intersted in a JK. Shortly after making a telephone offer under $35k I found myself driving to the dealership to pickup a new JK. I still prefer the JL with the 8 speed auto and the ability to run 35s with no lift, but I think a 3.5" lift and 35s will dress up this JK nicely.

The plan is AEV 3.5 lift with 35" tires. I'm currently undecided between the AEV tire carrier and the Teraflex carrier. I'm also undecided between black or Onyx Pintlers or saving a little cash and getting the Quadratec Morphic wheels. Let me know your thoughts and opinions on wheels and tire carrers or any comments in general on my new Jeep. Did I do OK or will I regret not waiting for a JL?

Oh... for those who recognize my name from the TJ site. I still have my 2005 LJ Rubihara. I'll be keeping that Jeep a long time.

View attachment 120211

I purchased my JKU with the Teraflex carrier and I have 35x12.5 and I've had a couple issued with the carrier, which I detailed in a thread:

https://wranglerjkforum.net/threads/tire-carrier-info.28604/#post-436181

 

[Fargo]

Thanks for sharing your experience with the Teraflex carrier. That is good to know. I was leaning in that direction, but now wonder if the AEV is the better option.

 

[Locrwln]

On my previous JK, it came with the Teraflex carrier. I had 35’s and even added the Titan fuel can and it seemed to carry it well. I didn’t leave the can on all of the time and only used it when I was headed out to the desert. With just the 35, it was very nice and maybe a bit easier than the AEV. I didn’t fully trust it though and it definitely made me nervous with that much weight on it.

I have a friend with 10A and he added the AEV carrier and fuel tank. I like the design/operation and it seems to hold/carry the weight very well. But as mentioned, your rear view is pretty much non-existent.

Jack

 

[Anybodyhome]

If I ever replace mine, I'll go with a model that distributes the weight to the frame, not the tailgate.
If the vehicle is the slightest bit leaned to the passenger side and you let that tailgate loose with that 110lb tire & wheel, it'll hit the stops and "spring the hinges," is the term used in construction when a door or storm door is opened too far and it binds back against the hinges, which is what my wife did.
It was bound after that and I had to really push to get it closed until me and my neighbor spent a couple hours taking it apart and tried to drive the hinge pins out. The pins are pressed in and don't come out.

 

[Fargo]

The biggest drawback of the AEV that keeps me looking at the Teraflex is the the obstructed view. The second thing I like about the Teraflex is their is a mounting bracket specifically for Maxxtrax. The AEV offers a bracket for things like the high lift, but I have no interest in carrying a highlift. But I do intend to mount a set of Maxxtrax. So for those two reasons I prefer the Teraflex, but the AEV is sounding like the more durable option.

 

[mrjp]

My back up camera is below the spare tire in the bumper. The camera between the lights is for my rearview mirror. You can see the back up camera in this pic

 

[Starrs]

Another vote for the AEV carrier.

Also I’d probably stick with the 2.5” lift if your just going with 35s. Keep it low. The 3.5” lift will net you greater than 4” for sure. You’ll look like your on skates

 

[Fargo]

Also I’d probably stick with the 2.5” lift if your just going with 35s. Keep it low. The 3.5” lift will net you greater than 4” for sure. You’ll look like your on skates

What size tire and lift is in your picture above?

I have considered sticking with the 2.5" lift, but my understanding is that the 3.5" actually handles and drives better due to raising the front trackbar with the high steer kit.

 

[BLACKJKU]

What size tire and lift is in your picture above?

I have considered sticking with the 2.5" lift, but my understanding is that the 3.5" actually handles and drives better due to raising the front trackbar with the high steer kit.

All the track bar does is center the axle under the Jeep so it goes straight down the road.

 

[Anybodyhome]

What size tire and lift is in your picture above?

I have considered sticking with the 2.5" lift, but my understanding is that the 3.5" actually handles and drives better due to raising the front trackbar with the high steer kit.

Raising the center of gravity on any vehicle does not necessarily result in better driving or handling. In fact, I'd be hard-pressed to believe it ever improves the overall stability of a vehicle.
I could be wrong, but it's fairly elementary physics.

 

[Fargo]

All the track bar does is center the axle under the Jeep so it goes straight down the road.

Not entirely true. Raising the track bar will also raise the roll center, (not to be confused with the center of gravity). Raising the roll center raises the point at which the body rotates around. Thus it has less body roll. Raising the trackbar will also bring the trackbar and drag link back into parallel planes so it will have less bumpster and handling quirks. On the other hand the 2.5" lift has less lift so these items are less affected. Its kind of a give and take. Thats why I go back and forth between 3.5 and 2.5 lifts.

From AEV: https://www.aev-conversions.com/12-things-know-lifted-suspension-engineering/

Roll-Center Geometry
Roll-center is the imaginary point around which the body leans in a turn and also around which it moves when the suspension flexes on a trail. There is one roll-center each for the front and rear suspensions. The location of each roll-center for most solid-axle suspensions is defined by the geometry of the track-bars (aka panhard bars). On late-model solid-axle Jeeps, the front track-bar runs in front of the axle from the frame on the driver’s side to the axle on the passenger’s side. The rear bar is behind the axle and the attachments are reversed. The actual roll-center is found by drawing an imaginary vertical line down the middle of the vehicle and another straight line between the bolts at the ends of the track bar (ignore the bends in the bar). The intersection of these two lines is the roll-center.

Roll-center is important to suspension engineers because its correct placement relative to the center of gravity is central to managing both body lean and weight transfer in turns. The farther apart the roll-center from the center of gravity, the more lean you have and the more handling degrades. If the roll center location is not ideal for the vehicle, it forces the engineer to try to ‘correct’ the problem with spring and/or shock tuning – which always results in a loss of performance somewhere else. This is one of the critical geometry parameters that must be right before you tune, or lift, the vehicle. When properly located relative to the center of gravity the roll-centers (defined by track bar placement) will allow the engineer to further optimize overall suspension performance via springs and shocks, etc. – without the burden of having to attempt to compensate for poor geometry. If one looks at the track-arm locations on AEV JK suspension systems, one will see that both the front and rear track-arms have been significantly repositioned to place the roll-centers in the optimal locations for either 3.5 or 4.5-inch lift heights.

Steering Geometry
Since any street-legal vehicle must have a mechanical steering connection from driver to tires, this system is critically affected by any suspension height change. Most enthusiasts are by now aware that for solid axle vehicles, the track-bar and steering drag-link must be parallel to avoid ‘bump-steer,’ but that’s just the beginning of the considerations. Roll-steer is caused when the steering linkage doesn’t pass through the roll-center of the suspension geometry – meaning that every time the vehicle leans or articulates, there is a steering input that the driver didn’t intend. This happens because there is a small lateral shift of the axle relative to the pitman arm on the steering box. This shift effectively steers the vehicle without driver input. To visualize this, think of holding the steering wheel (and consequently all of the linkage) steady and moving the axle side-to-side. Since the steering didn’t move but the axle did, the steering knuckles must rotate to make up the difference – which creates unwanted steering. On twisty, bumpy roads, roll-steer, along with the larger problem of rear suspension roll-steer (see #2), can keep the driver very busy trying to maintain the intended direction. This is because the vehicle is always doing ‘extra’ things the driver didn’t intend. This quickly leads to driver fatigue and frustration with the behavior of the vehicle. To eliminate this in AEV’s JK suspension systems, AEV engineers developed the JK High-Steer Kit. This kit repositions both the track-arm and steering drag-link. The new positions flatten the operating angles and ensure that the drag-link passes through the roll-center of the suspension geometry. The overall result is reduced driver fatigue, improved safety and very precise steering response.

 

[Vman]

What size tire and lift is in your picture above?

I have considered sticking with the 2.5" lift, but my understanding is that the 3.5" actually handles and drives better due to raising the front trackbar with the high steer kit.

I'm not sure how that's possible. As you raise the body, the axle is going to move towards the driver side and towards the rear of the Jeep relative to the body. That necessitates drag link flips, adjustable track bars, adjustable control arms etc etc.

The axle rolls forward greatly affecting steering by changing caster angle and putting stress on the connection between the drive shaft and the diff, necessitating aftermarket drive shafts.

There's really only two reasons to increase the lift between the axle and the body: looks and tire clearance.

The downsides, and the cost, are many.

 

[Vman]

Not entirely true. Raising the track bar will also raise the roll center, (not to be confused with the center of gravity). Raising the roll center raises the point at which the body rotates around. Thus it has less body roll. Raising the trackbar will also bring the trackbar and drag link back into parallel planes so it will have less bumpster and handling quirks. On the other hand the 2.5" lift has less lift so these items are less affected. Its kind of a give and take. Thats why I go back and forth between 3.5 and 2.5 lifts.

From AEV: https://www.aev-conversions.com/12-things-know-lifted-suspension-engineering/

Roll-Center Geometry
Roll-center is the imaginary point around which the body leans in a turn and also around which it moves when the suspension flexes on a trail. There is one roll-center each for the front and rear suspensions. The location of each roll-center for most solid-axle suspensions is defined by the geometry of the track-bars (aka panhard bars). On late-model solid-axle Jeeps, the front track-bar runs in front of the axle from the frame on the driver’s side to the axle on the passenger’s side. The rear bar is behind the axle and the attachments are reversed. The actual roll-center is found by drawing an imaginary vertical line down the middle of the vehicle and another straight line between the bolts at the ends of the track bar (ignore the bends in the bar). The intersection of these two lines is the roll-center.

Roll-Center Geometry
Roll-center is important to suspension engineers because its correct placement relative to the center of gravity is central to managing both body lean and weight transfer in turns. The farther apart the roll-center from the center of gravity, the more lean you have and the more handling degrades. If the roll center location is not ideal for the vehicle, it forces the engineer to try to ‘correct’ the problem with spring and/or shock tuning – which always results in a loss of performance somewhere else. This is one of the critical geometry parameters that must be right before you tune, or lift, the vehicle. When properly located relative to the center of gravity the roll-centers (defined by track bar placement) will allow the engineer to further optimize overall suspension performance via springs and shocks, etc. – without the burden of having to attempt to compensate for poor geometry. If one looks at the track-arm locations on AEV JK suspension systems, one will see that both the front and rear track-arms have been significantly repositioned to place the roll-centers in the optimal locations for either 3.5 or 4.5-inch lift heights.

Steering Geometry
Since any street-legal vehicle must have a mechanical steering connection from driver to tires, this system is critically affected by any suspension height change. Most enthusiasts are by now aware that for solid axle vehicles, the track-bar and steering drag-link must be parallel to avoid ‘bump-steer,’ but that’s just the beginning of the considerations. Roll-steer is caused when the steering linkage doesn’t pass through the roll-center of the suspension geometry – meaning that every time the vehicle leans or articulates, there is a steering input that the driver didn’t intend. This happens because there is a small lateral shift of the axle relative to the pitman arm on the steering box. This shift effectively steers the vehicle without driver input. To visualize this, think of holding the steering wheel (and consequently all of the linkage) steady and moving the axle side-to-side. Since the steering didn’t move but the axle did, the steering knuckles must rotate to make up the difference – which creates unwanted steering. On twisty, bumpy roads, roll-steer, along with the larger problem of rear suspension roll-steer (see #2), can keep the driver very busy trying to maintain the intended direction. This is because the vehicle is always doing ‘extra’ things the driver didn’t intend. This quickly leads to driver fatigue and frustration with the behavior of the vehicle. To eliminate this in AEV’s JK suspension systems, AEV engineers developed the JK High-Steer Kit. This kit repositions both the track-arm and steering drag-link. The new positions flatten the operating angles and ensure that the drag-link passes through the roll-center of the suspension geometry. The overall result is reduced driver fatigue, improved safety and very precise steering response.

All this is saying is that if you go with a 3.5-4.5 inch lift you're going to need a bunch of changes and a bunch of money.

 

[Fargo]

Raising the center of gravity on any vehicle does not necessarily result in better driving or handling. In fact, I'd be hard-pressed to believe it ever improves the overall stability of a vehicle.
I could be wrong, but it's fairly elementary physics.

You are correct that raising the center of gravity will be detrimental to handling. But in the case of the AEV lift it is benificial because it allows them to raise the trackbar up front without compromising suspension travel. Its the geometry improvements that enhances performance despite raising the center of gravity. See the post above from AEV.

 

[Starrs]

What size tire and lift is in your picture above?

I have considered sticking with the 2.5" lift, but my understanding is that the 3.5" actually handles and drives better due to raising the front trackbar with the high steer kit.

4.5” and 37s. I’m debating on dropping to the 3.5” coils, but I’m putting Nittos on beginning of next year and they are an inch bigger than BFGs so I’ll probably keep what I have. Just telling you from experience with AEV parts…2.5” is al you will need/want with a 35” tire

 

[Starrs]

My old JK AEV 2.5” lift and 35s

 

[Starrs]

Raising the COG isn’t going to lead to a better driving experience